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Sexism in the industry

This is the kind of post that could cause upset amongst a few people — but I assure you, I mean no harm. I’m just calling something as I see it.

Onwards…

Sexism is a serious problem in the web design and development industry. That’s no secret, and people certainly need to become more aware of it and help to prevent it.

Aral’s tweet above seemed to have uncovered a whole host of horror stories of sexism in the workplace, particularly in the web and IT industry. What he said above is entirely true, and I’ve seen it for myself countless times. It needs to stop. It’s terrible that even in a community as wide, accepting, friendly, and fun as the web design community, sexism still occurs on a daily basis.

However.

This problem goes a little further than nerds having the hots for any women that grace their twitter feed. Since I started this whole design malarkey, I’ve noticed a recurring theme — I’ve even spoken to a few people about it in the past who have completely agreed with me. Females in the industry get it a lot easier1.

It seems to me that some of the most prolific females in our industry have gotten their status largely down to their gender. This sounds incredibly rude, but many of the female designers and developers who have attained industry fame actually produce relatively low quality work.

Don’t take this the wrong way. I’m astounded by the sexism that exists in our industry — it is truly worrying. And I also know a vast number of female designers and developers who are extremely talented, and deserve all the recognition they can get and then some. Perhaps it’s more to do with who you know than your gender, but gender certainly does seem to play a massive role.

The sexist attitude needs to stop, but it needs to work both ways. Recognise talent regardless of gender, and I think we’ll be one step closer.

1. This was quite a sweeping statement. I know that because of a sexist attitude, women in the industry may actually find it a lot harder to work and get recognised. I was largely talking about more prolific females in web design & development, who (in my opinion, and men are guilty of this too) are often praised for sometimes ‘average’ work.

  • http://www.callumeuanhopkins.co.uk/ Callum Hopkins

    Completely agree with, and it is on a situation by situation basis: some woman will argue they find it the same or harder due to their gender, which I stand by also.

    What I don’t like is the view on the two extremes of the issue: 1) where men think they’re superior to women and 2) where woman think everyman is a sexist pig.

    Only way to solve the problem is to see people as designers, developers ect and not as male or females. I think this is happening more and more in modern times.

    Good post and congrats on having the balls to post it!

    • A Nobody

      “Only way to solve the problem is to see people as designers, developers ect and not as male or females.”

      Please stop telling websites to feature “hottest female designers” and “top female designers,” then? I don’t ever see “top male designer” lists — but I do see quite a few female ones, and unfortunately on 50% or more of the home page of the female designer’s personal portfolio sites, there is a gigantic image of their face plastered on it. Why is that necessary? Why use that as a ploy? Unfortunately… I think that if they were men, they wouldn’t get the same praise. Work that isn’t spectacular and certainly shouldn’t be in a “top list” of anything, but it is because the person who made it was female.

      I’m a female designer, and I don’t have a large picture of myself on my home page, but I also don’t tweet about obnoxious things on twitter just for the attention of the people who follow me just because I’m a woman.

      It’s not just the design industry that is like this. Men will always argue that “women have it easier” because that’s what they think and women will think that they need to work extra hard because they ARE women and have to prove themselves twice as much.

      I WISH we were treated equally and by the quality of our work and not what online community we’re in and knowing how to design in a small square. There’s more to design than that. People just don’t get it.

    • Anonymous

      Nailed it, bravo.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed on all points. I’ve been meaning to write about this myself, now’s a good time I think :)

  • http://glenn.me/ Glenn Hitchcock

    I remember there was a Twitter tiff between John O’Nolan and Mike Monteiro a few months back, arguing about whether females should be given speaker spots over men at conferences.

    On one side you’re trying to counter a history of discrimination by trying to get more women into the industry and to the same level as men.

    On the other side you want the best speakers, and while this isn’t based on sex, since there’s more men than women, you’re likely to find more talent there.

    At the heart of it, I guess those that can give those speaker spots, or in your case recognition, need to be aware of this delicate balance and judge appropriately.

    • http://daneden.me Dan Eden

      This is exactly what I mean. Should we be sacrificing high standards of quality for “equality”? Because if you’re including females for the sake of it, you’re already failing that objective.

      A tricky situation.

  • Hitler

    There are good and bad designers regardless of gender, many good female developers/designers. However it’s the “speakers” who tend to be shit at their day job but get built up to celebrity status by idiots and this is very clear… oh who care.

    Also Jews.

  • http://twitter.com/tashahinde Natasha Hinde

    I couldn’t agree more with everything you have said. Yes it’s all good giving women a chance but only if they have something to show for it. It’s not good to over do it and go completely the opposite and praise them profoundly for work which is average. It’s all about ze balance!

    • http://daneden.me Dan Eden

      Thanks Tasha!

  • http://twitter.com/tashahinde Natasha Hinde

    opposite way**

  • http://www.lukejones.me/ Luke Jones

    You know I agree with you here, it’s an extremely delicate subject.

    It’s almost positive discrimination… Women are being treated differently to guys in the industry. Mediocre work is being praised because people think “oh crap, it’s a girl… can’t come across as sexist”.

    It’s not that men produce better work it’s that men are praised less for mediocre work. It’s sexism, the opposite way around.

  • Matt Chatterley

    I’d definitely say this is another example of how positive discrimination is gradually permeating society — and causing problems.

    Surely if we strive for equality, then that means giving praise and recognition on the basis of talent, achivement and ability — not age/gender/colour/capability to eat the hottest curry/whatnot?

    • http://visualidiot.com Visual Idiot

      Because if it was based on ability to eat the hottest curry, I’d be the world’s best designer.

  • Jt1190

    Typical work place scenario.

    Working in game retail I’ve seen the exact same thing happen. One of the girls at work gets praised for being good at what she does but does nothing above and beyond that, whereas one of the guys who does a hell of a lot more for the store gets no recognition for it.

    It’s the fault of male management for being easily swayed in their own minds (it isn’t her fault that he clearly fancies her.)

    On the topic of equality at the workplace it pisses me off to no end. Whoever is best gets the job/promotion. Whoever works hardest will get the furthest. Of course that system only works when you make an attempt to completely be rid of emotions. Which is what makes us human.

  • Logan

    The bottom line is people don’t want fairness, they want the disenfranchised (whoever that may be) to be GIVEN opportunity instead of earning it.

  • http://about.me/antoninjanuska Antonin Januska

    I gotta say, i disagree with you. I’ve seen plenty of men get industry “fame” or even high paying jobs with sucky design. The idea that good work, and doing a good job will get you far is not exactly true. There are those “who you know” things.

    The same way a lad may fancy some girl and promotes her, that same guy may like his male coworker and promote him because they’re “cool” together, not because of the gender itself.

    • http://daneden.me Dan Eden

      Hi Antonin. You’ve made a great point — the (much) bigger picture is that there’s an underserved celebrity status surrounding a lot of the leading lights in our industry. Once they reach a certain level of fame, they can post any old crap and it’ll be praised.

      But I still feel as though there’s some serious positive discrimination occurring when it comes to work from females.

  • http://twitter.com/iamlouisbullock Louis Bullock

    Gender should mean nothing, talent and quality of work should always be the focus. I know quite a few female designers and developers, and their talent is equal if not greater than some of the work of male designers and developers.

    ‘Nerds’ aren’t always guys, there are plenty of technology savvy and intelligent women in the world who don’t mind thrashing the competition in COD.

    And your point about female ‘nerds’ being praised for being a ‘female nerd’, and even praised for their looks is awful. I mean, getting noticed for being female and a nerd is bad publicity to start off with, but being promoted as a ‘sexy’ ‘female nerd’ is right back to the issue of sexism.

    All are created equal, and should be treated so.

  • http://www.labrecords.co.uk nathenmcvittie
  • http://twitter.com/johnallsopp John Allsopp

    If you are going to assert something inflammatory, and hurtful, such as that our industry has a small number of high profile *women* (female is an adjective), who are “often praised for some­times ‘aver­age’ work”, suggesting they don’t warrant the profile they have, other than because they are women), then at least have the courage of your convictions and give evidence.

    Who?
    What praise?
    What “average” work?

    And now, demonstrate, even if this is the case, that the misplaced praise is due to gender bias toward women, rather than equally common for high profile men in our industry.

    You may not mean any harm, but in law and ethics we are responsible for the probable causes of our actions, and if you can’t see that a warrantless and evidence free assertion that “more pro­lific females in web design & devel­op­ment, who … are often praised for some­times ‘aver­age’ work” has the potential for hurtful and negtive outcomes, I suggest you put yourself in the shoes of one of these women.

    • Leckie

      The problem with this is that as soon as you ask for names and evidence you’re opening this to a personal attack rather than an opinion piece. We’ve seen this a lot recently and I think we can all agree it’s not good for anyone.

      I tend to agree with Dan’s post, it’s a conversation I’ve had a number of times with various people. This isn’t a generalisation of all women by any means and I would agree that it is the case with certain men as well, though not quite as prominent.

    • Aristidis500

      JohnFAllsopp, stop being PC; the man is right. I have fifteen years in the industry and I have also seen the bias towards females b countless time. Not use denying it just because it hurts your PC instincts.When you’re a hot looking girl its much easier to get the position or clients. I’ve seen many girls who didn’t know a thing and got into coveted agency positions just like that. “Oh, you don’t know anything? Doesn’t matter girl, we’ll teach you a few computer programs and you’ll be OK.” Stop hiding from reality John.